- What is best? Ethanol box or ethanol reprogramming? We tell you everything.
- Customer satisfaction survey carried out by PoseKitEthanol.com.
- Box approvalthird ethanol
- Driving without a housing: what are the risks?
- What about a vehicle for sale already equipped with an ethanol box?
- Some unauthorized professional installers offer the installation of a valve lubrication system, is this necessary or completely unnecessary?
- What is the difference between biofuel E85, E85, super-ethanol, bioethanol E85?
- Can I go directly to fill up with E85 once the kit is installed?
- How will my first refueling go at E85?
- Once the kit is installed, should I always run on E85 biofuel?
- Can I drive continuously and fully on E85 or do I have to put some Super Unleaded from time to time?
- What will happen to my consumption of E85?
- If we overconsume then it may not be more profitable?
- Do I have to modify the maintenance of my vehicle?
- Which parts are most affected by this fuel change?
- How does it work if I have an Engine Guarantee?
- What are the advantages of the ParadigmE85 kit?
- I have a diesel vehicle: is it possible to equip it with a box?
1 / What is best? Ethanol box or ethanol reprogramming? We tell you everything
Today, during an accident, a check that the computer has not been modified is systematically carried out by the expert to verify that nothing has been changed because, like the dealers, he can immediately check it. Any engine reprogramming immediately cancels coverage by the insurer and this can cost you very dearly. You will have to fight to prove that it is an ethanol reprogramming without power modification, and know that the programmer will never notify that he has carried out an ethanol reprogramming.
It is very common that the program crashes during writing, and if your programmer has only read the program via the OBD socket the program will be incomplete and it will therefore be impossible to restart the engine, you will be for your expenses for a starter kit if it is possible, if not your car will be immobilized for the very long term, and as the programmer will have transpired well on your calculator he will refuse to modify you then your program. When you do an engine reprogramming internship, it is indeed an insistent warning that the program may frequently crash.
Manufacturers are increasingly protecting computers so that they crash without being able to be reused (when opening the computer, when reading or writing, etc.), which will force you to see with your dealer, and as today all electronic intervention is managed by the parent company of the brand, if you have a manufacturer's warranty it will be automatically canceled, and if no warranty you will have it for your expenses… without counting downtime because sometimes the brand she simply refuses this type of reparation because she considers it a violation of law.
What programmers especially don't want you to know:
They delete a large amount of “trouble code” (called DTC) to prevent the vehicle from going into default and finding itself restrained at a reduced speed following an engine anomaly. So you will no longer have an illuminated fault indicator on the dashboard, and if the engine has a problem it will continue to operate even in the presence of failure (s) without you noticing anything ... until they worsen at the risk that it is too late.
The problem is that without these DTCs no one will be able to know where the fault is coming from since when we plug in the diagnostic case there will be no information allowing us to locate the problem. And it is very serious because your local mechanic will find himself helpless in front of an engine covered with electronics, with a breakdown from which he will not be able to know where it comes from. Usually in the event of a problem you have an indicator light which remains lit on the dashboard indicating an engine anomaly, the mechanic connects the diagnostic socket and we obtain a fault code number which makes it possible to locate the problem, and without this information it will cost you therefore very expensive because it will have to change a large number of parts before finding since nothing allows it to locate the anomaly. Or you will have to go back to the programmer with super unleaded in the tank so that it resets the original program, then locate the fault, make the repairs and finally put back the ethanol programming. When you know that it is often necessary to open the electronic computer of your vehicle to access the program… hello the cost of the operation, the time lost, and above all know that your vehicle becomes unsaleable if the new buyer lives far from the programmer.
In the event of a breakdown or overhaul, when the dealer realizes that the engine is reprogrammed, at best it will make an update which will restore it to its original condition but only if the diagnostic suitcase allows it because for certain brands it is impossible because it requires the authorization of the parent company which will notice the modification and refuse any intervention, or at worst the dealer will see that the computer has undergone a program modification and will refuse any intervention on the vehicle. Note that if the dealer updates to restore the original program, you will have to come back to the programmer to re-inject the flexfuel programming, and it is not free.
Otherwise there are also programmers who program you to operate only on ethanol, so that you will no longer be able to put Unleaded in your tank, which may be valid for competition, but for use daily…
Since 2018, programmers are growing like mushrooms, this is explained by the fact that they are not programmers, they just have one or more software that allows them to read the program, then they pay a programmer for the modification of the program and you re-inject it without knowing what has been changed ... it works well, no problem ... until a breakdown is declared (which inevitably happens over time) and as the fault codes will be absent ...
Here is the reality and the disadvantages of reprogramming, and those who swear by the benefits of reprogramming on the forums when they don't know would do well to show a little more reserve.
Otherwise for the benefits, we must admit that what is nice is that nothing is seen when you raise the hood, which gives an advantage when going to technical control and there is the possibility of increasing the torque and the engine power.
While the ethanol container:
- The ethanol kit is often tolerated by insurers because they know that this does not in any way modify the behavior of the vehicle (acceleration, braking, steering, gear changes for automatic transmissions)
- in the event of a breakdown, sale or otherwise, it is entirely possible to remove it and everything is again as it was originally. We deplore the fact that some of whose vehicles are still under warranty prefer to put an unlicensed ethanol box in order to be able to remove it in the event of a warranty claim and to be certain that they will not suffer disagreements regarding the takeover between the manufacturer of the box. ethanol approved and the manufacturer, because normally the manufacturer of the approved housing must replace the manufacturer's warranty for parts in contact with ethanol (fuel pump, fuel hoses, injectors, pistons, liners, cylinder head, valves and catalytic converter , but unfortunately in case of disagreement it will be necessary to wait for an expertise and counter-expertise to be made to designate the culprit which creates a considerable loss of time.
- Our ethanol box will allow you to drive without an illuminated fault indicator on the dashboard, which will be proof of proper operation and not a simple cancellation of the fault code as mentioned above.
- Your engine will accept both unleaded Super and E85 Superethanol, regardless of the mixture or not.
- Your engine works exactly as it did originally.
- The ethanol kit is guaranteed for 5 years but it lasts much longer.
The disadvantages of an unauthorized housing:
- It is still necessary to inquire with your insurer to know if he accepts it, some insurances see no inconvenience and considers it as an accessory since it does not change the behavior of the vehicle, but certain insurances refuse.
- Even if it is very rarely detected, the technical controller may, if he sees it, put the car in a cons-visit, it will then have to be dismantled to pass the counter-visit.
- You cannot modify the energy on the gray card so that it passes to multi-fuel FE.
- Future purchasers will have to pay the entire registration card.
The advantages of a certified E85 box:
- Half price or free registration card according to the departments
- Modification of the gray card in FE multi-fuel
- To date, it is possible to obtain state aid depending on its resources in certain regions.
The disadvantages of the approved ethanol casing:
- 3 year warranty instead of 5
- The cost of transformation
- Cannot be disassembled to be installed on another vehicle
- Warranty issues
- Some dealers will categorically refuse to do anything on the vehicle so as not to be the last responder in the event of a problem to be assumed, because the culprit is always the last intervener.
- 98% of approved installers on those who previously criticized this type of modification, they embark on this novelty without being convinced but as there is a financial interest it should not be overlooked, and this allows them to play on both counts because in the event of a glitch they will not hesitate to criticize rather than to seek the cause.
It would also be interesting to understand why all the former installers who have been doing this for several years (more than 5 years), the most experienced, do not seek to become a certified installer? They nevertheless have a real notoriety because they are the ones who really worked against the current of builders, dealers, garage owners, forums and others who constantly expressed fears to those who wanted to hear it, it was these installers who installed during all these years at reasonable costs to prove that it worked well, and moreover to reverse the trend of these false rumors. In any case, they continue to work a lot since it is always better to have to deal with known and recognized connoisseurs rather than with novices who install one from time to time between two oil changes, pads or fitting of tires. Remember that these do not work badly but they are subject to performance and sometimes hellish rates, and this is not compatible with the technicality of auto electronics.
2. Summary of the customer satisfaction survey carried out by PoseKitEthanol.com
concerning their installations and the functioning of our kits.
Posekitethanol is very famous in the south east of France.
Here are some answers about us, based on 271 customers who wanted to answer and a fairly wide range of vehicles.
You can find all the details of the survey by customers / vehicles by clicking here
3/ Approval of E85 ethanol boxes:
Since December 15, 2017, a decree aimed at regulating the installations of ethanol boxes has been published and limits installations to vehicles of 14 hp maximum. This installation allows a modification of the energy on the gray card in FE which means flexfuel (petrol / ethanol)
Our boxes are not yet approved, we only start the necessary steps to carry out the tests. No information concerning the evolution of our procedures will be disclosed, we will publish our approval on the site once obtained. Namely, it is not the operating tests that scare us far from it, but rather the cost necessary to obtain it which is important.
Once the first tests have been validated, we will remove all of our boxes from direct sale on the site (even if we sell them abroad we would like to comply with French law) and we will invite you to contact our partner garage owners directly. we will have trained and who will therefore be approved for our brand.
The prices will no longer be displayed and only the global services will be available on the site.
4 / Driving without a housing: what are the risks?
Beware of the major confusion which misleads many of you: Owners of vehicles dating before 2001 boast on forums to drive 100% E85 without an illuminated light, this is serious false information because they do not know that the computers of this period do not indicate this type of fault, their computers detecting a lean mixture will only be able to increase its injection times up to its maximum threshold for which it has been configured for petrol, i.e. approximately 15 to 20% depending on the models, while for certain acceleration it may require a supplement of up to 35%, and this lack will create undeniable problems in the long term. You should know that this lack of fuel (ethanol) compared to the amount of air that enters the cylinders will create overheating during combustion which will undeniably alter the longevity of the engine in the long term.
Moreover, all those who drive without a kit are unanimous, their engines work but notice a lack of power during full acceleration as well as very difficult starts at low temperatures and for some of the misfires they prefer to minimize as long as it works.
the problems do not occur in the short or medium term but rather after 2 years, i.e. around 30,000 to 40,000 km, which result in:
- Cylinder head gaskets which are constantly repeated due to the constant overheating created by the bad air / fuel mixture
- Exfoliation of segments created by overheating of the wrong mixture
- Sometimes some have completely pierced or broken a piston always due to this bad mixture which is compensated by an overheating during the ignition of the mixture in the cylinders.
This analysis follows the many calls received by some who admitted to having driven ethanol for a long time without a kit and wanted to know if these problems were due to the fact that they were driving without a kit.
There is no miracle, driving without an ethanol box causes overheating inside the cylinders only because of this bad air / petrol mixture.
It was not until 2001 that the fault indicator on the dashboard lights up in the event of too poor mixing, for those it is not better because the computer having detected this anomaly will illuminate the indicator on the dashboard and go into degraded mode, it is to say that it works with a backup setting without following the indications of its probes and will therefore no longer increase its injection times but return to a threshold close to 0% and therefore cause large disturbances.
Conversely, the ethanol kit will compensate for this lack by increasing the injection times so as to find the same combustion as with petrol, and in this case the computer will be able to manage its injection times without perceiving the slightest anomaly, it can just as easily reduce them to petrol to obtain the desired combustion, that is all the difference and it is major for your engine!
Some with recent vehicles do not have the light that lights up but do not understand why their overconsumption sometimes reaches up to 50%:
This is due to the fact that their computer has difficulty managing this necessary opening extension and can reach overvoltages too large to open the injectors, it can exceed 60 volts which is a sign of deterioration for the computer.
The ParadigmE85 kits that we know well for having analyzed with an oscilloscope will avoid this problem by prolonging the closure rather than letting it rise in overvoltage.
Here, in summary, for those who do not know electronics and mechanics, riding without a kit is serious, driving (even with a kit) with the lit fault indicator is serious and indicates that the kit is not good, as for those who know, you will understand that the above explanations make it essential to install a good ethanol kit if you want to drive quietly with E85 for the very long term.
Here is a link found on the forum of a colleague who typically represents the problem (on a Toyota) related to driving without a case, so good advice: despite everything you can read or see on the net, do not exceed 50% of mixture of E85 in your tank without kit, too many Internet users do not realize the bad info they disclose but it is you who will pay the price (or the next purchaser) click here
5 / What about a vehicle for sale already equipped with an ethanol box?
If the vehicle is running well and there is never an illuminated fault indicator on the dashboard, at least you can be sure that this engine has not run with an air / fuel mixture that is too lean with ethanol, because do not forget that it is the most serious reverse, the one that will roll without a box on the long term and resell your vehicle to you when it will feel that its engine decreases in power, and sometimes with engines not very mileage but already at the end of its life… It will be enough for him to refill gasoline and you will not realize anything since you do not know the performance of the engine at the origin, and the costs will be for you.
Concretely, those who know the ethanol boxes know that it is preferable that a vehicle is equipped with it, at least there is no risk of buying a vehicle which has been driven for a long time on the E85 without a box.
6/ Some unauthorized professional installers offer the installation of a valve lubrication system, is this necessary or completely unnecessary?
Completely useless, this system is designed for LPG installations and which is absolutely useless for ethanol operation. Brazilians who have been running Superethanol 100% for more than 30 years have not had one, as for us it has been 10 years now that this biofuel has been present in France, that those who only run E85 with a housing from the start are not equipped with this lubrication system and they did not break their engine.
So it's a completely unnecessary installation that allows the installer to charge more.
7 / What is the difference between biofuel E85, E85, super-ethanol, bioethanol E85?
It's exactly the same thing, we just have several ways to name it.
8 / Can I go directly to fill up with E85 once the kit is installed?
Our kits allow you to directly fill up with E85 if you wish,
provided that the vehicle is well maintained.
If before installation, your vehicle has troubles such as:
- unstable idle
- Excessive consumption
- missed acceleration
so we strongly advise you to resolve these problems beforehand, because switching to E85 may amplify these disturbances.
If you have just bought your vehicle and you are not sure of the faultless functioning of your engine, then we advise you once the kit is installed, to go to the almost empty tank station and you will only fill it up half, which will allow you to judge immediately while having half a tank available for lead-free if necessary.
Once reassured, this fear will turn into pleasure and you will be delighted to fill up with less energy while polluting less.
9 / How will my first refill at E85 go?
Once the installation is complete, you will notice from the first kilometers that the behavior of the engine remains the same.
Once you arrive at the service station, immediately view the pump with the E85 or superethanol sign, because often only one of the station's pumps delivers it.
You just have to insert the gun into the tank, the only difference is that the color of the gun is:
- red for TOTAL
- light green for CARREFOUR MARKET
- blue for other companies
10 / Once the kit is installed, should I always run on E85 biofuel?
Not at all, once installed your engine will be adapted to work as well with unleaded petrol as with E85 superethanol, the kit will allow your electronic calculator to adapt its injection whatever the mixture or not.
11 / Can I drive continuously and entirely on the E85 or do I have to put some Super Unleaded from time to time?
Our kits have been designed to allow you to constantly run on E85 bioethanol, in summer and winter you can definitely forget about the unleaded super and come back to it without any problem if there is no E85 station nearby.
12 / What will happen to my consumption of E85?
Driving on E85 generates an increase in consumption between 10% and 20% on average, sometimes a little more, this is necessary to obtain the same combustion as gasoline, this overconsumption varies depending on the types of engines.
13 / If we overconsume then it may not be more profitable?
By including an overconsumption of 20% you still earn € 0.63 per liter.
E85 price: around € 0.60 per liter on average
+ 20% of overconsumption = 60 + 12 = 0.72 € per liter including overconsumption
Cost price per liter of E85 including overconsumption: € 0.72
Price of the 95 unleaded super: € 1.35 per liter on average
Or 0.63 € of savings per liter, as you can see, the margin is still considerable and overconsumption becomes anecdotal.
14 / What are the parts most affected by this fuel change?
About 5% of the vehicles which pass to the E85 have the fuel pump which releases in the short or medium term, according to our information this relates more particularly to the vehicles of more than 10 years and often of German design. It is the only risk which is not the most expensive but which must be taken into consideration.
15 / How does it work if I have an engine warranty?
If your vehicle is under warranty and your engine is equipped with an ethanol kit, you will understand of course that in the event of a glitch and taking warranty, it will not take more than the dealer to refuse coverage and cancel warranty.
It is good to know, so either you will knowingly override your warranty or otherwise you will have to wait for the end of the manufacturer's warranty, which we recommend.
We deplore the fact that some of whose vehicles are still under warranty prefer to put an unlicensed ethanol box in order to be able to remove it in the event of a warranty claim and be certain that they will not suffer any disagreements between the manufacturer of the box ethanol approved and the manufacturer, because normally the manufacturer of the approved housing must replace the manufacturer's warranty for parts in contact with ethanol (fuel pump, fuel hoses, injectors, pistons, liners, cylinder head, valves and catalytic converter , but unfortunately in case of disagreement it will be necessary to wait for an expert opinion and counter-expert opinion to be made to designate the culprit which creates a considerable loss of time.
16 / Do I have to modify the maintenance of my vehicle?
Some dealers may refuse your vehicle for service, so you will need to go to a multi-brand garage.
For maintenance, we advise you to change the oil filter every 15000 km, as well as the spark plugs (except quality IRIDIUM spark plugs: 30000km).
17 / What are the advantages of the ParadigmE85 kit?
- - Cold start / temperature sensor integrated in the box
- - optimal functioning, no miss whatever the acceleration.
- - No fault indicator light on the dashboard
- - isolation in a resin
- - Isolation of cables from the harness
- - Fully automatic whatever the mixture
- - For good numbers of vehicles: our experience allows us to pack the kit with the connectors already connected so that you simply have to connect it, without having to look for the polarities of the connectors, the impedance of the injectors, or any adjustment, it will really be plug and play, which will greatly simplify the installation.
For certain vehicles or engines that require special attention to access the injectors, we can give you all the precautions and tips to be respected regarding your engine, all the good advice to avoid damaging anything and to carry out a simple and careful assembly. In case of installation by a professional mechanic, we suggest that you put us in direct contact with him in order to simplify his task.
18 / I have a diesel vehicle, is it possible to equip it with an ethanol box?
NO. This question is becoming more and more frequent, there is no possibility of equipping a diesel engine with our boxes to run on E85.
We remain at your disposal for any further information request, do not hesitate to contact us.